NOTICE by Google LLC re [362] Order on Motion to Seal NOTICE OF FILING UNREDACTED AND UNSEALED DOCUMENTS (Attachments: # (1) Supplement UNREDACTED Reply Brief, # (2) Exhibit 19 UNSEALED, # (3) Exhibit 20 UNSEALED, # (4) Exhibit 22 UNSEALED)(Reilly, Craig)
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
ALEXANDRIA DIVISION
__________________________
:
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, :
et al.,
:
:
Plaintiffs
:
:
v.
: No.
:
GOOGLE, LLC,
:
:
Defendants.
:
__________________________:
1:23-cv-
Tuesday, August 15, Video Deposition of ALLEN OWENS,
taken at the Law Offices of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind,
Wharton & Garrison LLP, 2001 K St NW, Washington,
DC, beginning at 9:37 a.m. Eastern Standard Time,
before Ryan K. Black, Registered Professional
Reporter, Certified Livenote Reporter and Notary
Public in and for the District of Columbia
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
ANTITRUST DIVISION
BY: JIMMY MCBIRNEY, ESQ.
CHASE PRITCHETT, ESQ.
ALVIN CHU, ESQ.
MARK SOSNOWSKY, ESQ. - Via Zoom
KATHERINE CLEMONS, ESQ - Via Zoom
JULIA TARVER-WOOD, ESQ. - Via Zoom
450 5th Street, N.W
Washington, DC 202.514.jimmy.mcbirney@usdoj.gov
chase.pritchett@usdoj.gov
alvin.chu@usdoj.gov
mark.sosnowsky@usdoj.gov
katherine.clemons@usdoj.gov
julia.tarver-wood@usdoj.gov
Representing - The United States of America
PAUL, WEISS, RIFKIND, WHARTON & GARRISON LLP,
BY: MARTHA L. GOODMAN, ESQ.
LEAH HIBBLER, ESQ.
2001 K St NW,
Washington, DC
202.223.mgoodman@paulweiss.com
lhibbler@paulweiss.com
Representing - Google LLC
ALSO PRESENT:
Orson Braithwaite - Legal Videographer
Ann Bruck - Department of the Navy
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I N D E X
TESTIMONY OF: ALLEN OWENS
PAGE
By Ms. Goodman.................................E X H I B I T S
EXHIBIT
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THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
Good morning.
We're
going on the record at 9:37 a.m. on August 15th,
2023.
sensitive and may pick up whispering and private
conversations.
time.
take place unless all parties agree to go
off the record.
Please note that the microphones are
Please mute your phones at this
Audio and video recording will continue to
This is Media Unit 1 of the
video-recorded deposition of Mr. Allen Owens
in the matter of United States, et al., versus
Google LLC, filed in the United States District
Court, Eastern District of Virginia, Alexandria
Division.
Case Number 1:23-cv-00108-LMB-JFA.
My name is Orson Braithwaite,
representing Veritext Legal Solutions, and I'm
the videographer.
Black from the firm Veritext Legal Solutions.
The court reporter is Ryan
Counsel will now state their appearances
and affiliations for the record.
MS. GOODMAN:
Martha Goodman of the law
firm Paul Weiss on behalf of Google LLC, and I'm
joined by my colleague Leah Hibbler.
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Jim McBirney on behalf of
the Department of Justice on behalf of the United
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States and the witness.
MR. PRITCHETT:
Chase Pritchett on
behalf of the United States.
MR. CHU:
Alvin Chu on behalf of the
United States.
MS. GOODMAN:
And then will any
attorneys appearing remotely please state your
presence.
MR. SOSNOWSKY:
Mark Sosnowsky, U.S.
Department of Justice.
MS. CLEMONS:
Katherine Clemons,
Department of Justice.
MS. GOODMAN:
MS. BRUCK:
Is there any -Ann Bruck, Department of
Navy.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
MS. TARVER-WOOD:
Tarver-Wood from DOJ.
entering an appearance.
throughout the day.
Yes.
This is Julia
I'm not officially
I'll be in and out
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
We have a Ms. Wood.
Thank you.
Will the
court reporter please swear in the witness?
*
*
*
Whereupon --
ALLEN OWENS,
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called to testify, having been first duly sworn
or affirmed, was examined and testified as
follows:
*
*
*
EXAMINATION
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Good -- good morning, Mr. Owens.
A.
Good morning.
Q.
Have you been deposed before?
A.
No, I have not.
Q.
Okay.
I want to make sure -- go over
a few ground rules, the most important one of
which is because the court reporter is writing
everything down that we're saying, it's important
that you let me finish my question before you
answer so that we don't talk over one another.
Okay?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
And please make sure that your
answers are verbal, particularly if it's a yes or
no question.
translate well to the -- to the piece of paper.
So please provide a verbal answer.
The uh-huh or huh-uh doesn't really
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
Okay?
And I will assume that you
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an -- understand my question.
understand, please let me know.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
If you don't
Okay?
Is there any reason that you
cannot provide your full -- fully truthful and
accurate testimony here today?
A.
No, there's no reason.
Q.
Okay.
What, if anything, did you do to
prepare for today's deposition?
A.
Met with counsel.
Q.
When did you meet with counsel?
A.
Various times.
Q.
What various times that -- can you
recall meeting with counsel?
A.
Yesterday, the day prior.
And I don't
recall exact dates before that, but various
times.
Q.
So yesterday meaning Monday and the day
prior meaning the Sunday before today?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
And -- and then you said "various
times prior to last Sunday you met with counsel";
is that correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
And were all of those meetings in
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may be an occasion where I might have, but not to
my recollection.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
So it is possible that you've deleted
documents in 2023 related to work, correct?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Object to the form of the
question.
THE WITNESS:
There's a possibility.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
Under Navy's -- are you aware of
any document retention policies at the Navy?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And what do those policies provide?
A.
Sitting here today, I don't recall the
exact stipulations in those policies.
Q.
How about generally?
What do you recall
as to what those document retention policies
state?
A.
Sitting here today, I -- I don't recall.
Q.
Okay.
To your knowledge, do the
document retention policies permit you to delete
files?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
THE WITNESS:
Objection; vague.
Yeah.
Sitting here today,
I don't recall the stipulations of that policy.
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BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
And thus you don't recall whether they
permit you to delete files, correct?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection.
Asked and
answered.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
My testimony is,
sitting here today, I do not recall the exact
stipulations of that policy.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
And, therefore, correct, you don't
recall whether those policies permit you to
delete files?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Is that accurate?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection.
Asked and
answered.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
So my testimony is,
sitting here today, I do not recall the exact
stipulations of that policy.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
And so you can't answer whether,
as a result of your inability to recall the exact
stipulations of this -- of the policy, you cannot
an -- you don't recall whether or not that policy
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permits you to delete files.
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Is that accurate?
Objection.
Asked and
answered.
THE WITNESS:
So it's my testimony that,
sitting here today, I don't recall the specific
stipulations of that policy.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
And, therefore, you can't testify
one way or another to what that policy says with
respect to the deletion of files, correct?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection.
Asked and
answered.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
Those were not my
words.
remember the exact stipulations of the policy.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
I said, sitting here today, I don't
Other than a lawyer, has anybody told
you anything about preserving documents with
respect to this litigation?
THE WITNESS:
I'm not sure of the
communications I received, whether those would be
privileged or not.
MR. MCBIRNEY:
If you received
communications regarding preserving documents
that were either from a lawyer or at the
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direction of a lawyer, that's privileged and I'd
instruct you not to answer.
communications about preserving documents that do
not fall into those categories and you are
confident that they do not come from counsel, you
can answer.
THE WITNESS:
If you received
Yeah.
Then I cannot
answer the question without revealing privileged
conversations.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
And for the record -- and this is a yes
or no question -- have you received any direction
from anybody with respect to preserving documents
related to this litigation?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
You can answer that yes
or no.
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
When did you receive such direction?
A.
I don't recall the exact time frame.
Earlier this year in 2023.
Q.
Was it before or after you learned about
this lawsuit?
A.
I don't recall.
Q.
Prior to this lawsuit, have you ever
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requested legal advice from the Department of
Justice Antitrust Division?
A.
No.
Q.
Prior to learning about this lawsuit,
have you ever requested legal advice from the
Department of Justice Antitrust Division?
A.
No.
Q.
Since receiving instructions with
respect to preserving documents related to this
litigation, have you deleted any documents on any
of your devices?
A.
Not to my knowledge.
Q.
So you've testified that VMLY&R is the
ad agency for the Navy; is that correct?
A.
That is correct.
Q.
And they have been the ad agency for the
Navy since, approximately, 2016.
accurate?
A.
Is that
They have been the ad agency since
approximately 2016, yes.
Q.
Okay.
And their contract with the Navy
was renewed or reentered into in 2021.
accurate?
A.
Yes, it was renewed in 2021.
Q.
Okay.
Is that
Other than the VMLY&R, is there
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any other agency -- ad agency engaged by the
Naval -- Navy Recruiting Command related to
advertising?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
THE WITNESS:
Objection; foundation.
Our contract is with
VMLY&R.
businesses and agencies that work with them.
our contract is with VMLY&R.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
It's my understanding they have other
But
And are you aware of any contract
between the Navy and any other ad agency related
to advertising?
A.
No.
Q.
Were you involved in the selection of
VMLY&R when their contract was renewed in 2021?
THE WITNESS:
Am I allowed to discuss
contractual selection items?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
You can answer that
question yes or no and we'll go from there.
THE WITNESS:
question again?
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
Can you ask that
Were you involved in the selection of
VMLY&R when their contract was renewed in 2021?
A.
Yes.
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of the term Open Web Display Advertising?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection; foundation.
Asked and answered.
THE WITNESS:
As I testified, I'm
familiar with the term; however, I don't know the
definition of Open Web Display Advertising.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
How are you familiar with the term Open
Web Display Advertising?
A.
I've -- I've seen the term.
But,
again, I -- I can't describe to you exactly the
definition of that.
understand it to be, as stated earlier, Display
Advertising.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
But, in general terms, I
Where have you seen the term Open
Web Display Advertising?
A.
I can't recollect exactly where I saw
Q.
Generally speaking, can you describe
it.
anywhere you've seen the term Open Web Display
Advertising, such as in emails or documents
with your ad agency, on -- on other websites
discussing the advertising industry, any place
that you recall seeing that term?
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MR. MCBIRNEY:
THE WITNESS:
Object to form.
Sitting here today, I -- I
cannot remember where I've seen that term.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Do you recall ever seeing it in any
documents provided to you by VMLY&R?
A.
As mentioned a moment ago, I cannot
recall where I've seen the term.
Q.
And, thus, you don't know whether you've
seen it in any documents provided by VMLY&R,
correct?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
answered.
Objection.
Asked and
Mischaracterizes the testimony.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
As I -- as I
testified, I don't recollect where I've seen the
term.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
Have you had any discussions
with anybody about the term Open Web Display
Advertising and what it means?
A.
Not to my knowledge.
Q.
Prior to the filing of this lawsuit
in January of 2023, were you aware of any
anticompetitive conduct on the part of Google
affecting Navy's advertising?
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MR. MCBIRNEY:
You can answer that
question to the extent it does not disclose
communications with counsel.
THE WITNESS:
To my knowledge, no.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
And how about prior to this lawsuit,
did you ever have any concerns in your capacity
as the director of marketing for the Navy
Recruiting Command that Google was engaging in
anticompetitive conduct related to digital
advertising?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Object to foundation.
THE WITNESS:
Prior to this, I had no
knowledge of nor reason to suspect that of
Google.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Prior to this lawsuit, did you have
ever -- did you ever have any concerns that
Google was engaging in any conduct that was
causing the Navy harm with respect to its digital
advertising?
A.
Sitting here today, I can -- I can think
of no reason to believe that.
Q.
You described Google, in fact, as a
partner of the Navy, right?
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MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection.
Assumes
facts.
THE WITNESS:
Oftentimes, a lot of the
businesses that we use will be referred to as a
partner if we're doing business with them, so
I -- I may have referred to Google as a partner.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Has Google helped the Navy with respect
to recruiting more sailors to join?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
THE WITNESS:
Objection; foundation.
We have found lots of
value in many of the Google buys that we've done.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
And the Google buys that you've done
that you've found value in, does that relate to
YouTube buys?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
And how about with respect to
search?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
Can you describe in any more
detail the value that you have found in many of
the Google buys that the Navy has done?
A.
In particular, some of the YouTube
activations we've had have had extremely high
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video completion rates.
Q.
Any other -THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
Counsel, the Zoom's
offline.
MS. GOODMAN:
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Let's take a break.
We're going to be here a
while.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
The time is 5:07 p.m.
We're going off the record.
(Recess taken.)
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
We're on the record.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Time is 5:14 p.m.
Mr. Owens, can you describe any other
instances that the Navy has found value in any of
the Google buys that it has done?
A.
there.
Paid search, as well.
We've found value
I don't have a list at the ready, but
-- but there's -- it's been on many occasions.
Q.
Can you approximate the number of
occasions that you've found value in Google buys
for the Navy?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
THE WITNESS:
Objection; foundation.
Yeah.
I -- I can't
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provide an exact number or even a general number.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Just many?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Has anybody at VMLY&R ever told you that
Google was engaging in anticompetitive conduct
with respect to digital advertising?
A.
No.
Q.
Did anybody at Wavemaker ever tell you
that Google was engaging in anticompetitive
conduct with respect to digital advertising?
A.
No.
Q.
Has anyone ever told you that Google is
engaging in anticompetitive conduct with respect
to digital advertising.
MR. MCBIRNEY:
anyone other than the attorneys.
to the extent --
MS. GOODMAN:
I interpret that to mean
You can answer
The question is the
question.
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Okay.
Well, then I would
instruct the witness not to answer to the extent
it requires divulging privileged communication.
THE WITNESS:
I'm going to listen to my
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MR. MCBIRNEY:
And lack of foundation.
THE WITNESS:
So the Navy has purchased
display advertising via our contract with VMLY&R,
and we've asked them to purchase that on our
behalf.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
But my question is did the
Navy -- to your knowledge, as director of
marketing for the Navy Recruiting Command and as
the Contracting Officer Representative, did the
Navy purchase any display advertising directly
-- not through VMYL&R or any other intermediary
-- did the Navy purchase any display advertising
directly from Google?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
answered.
of foundation.
Objection.
Asked and
Calls for a legal conclusion, and lack
THE WITNESS:
We have purchased our
marketing and advertising and media from Google,
as well as other companies, through our ad agency
contract.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
You're -- sir, you're not
answering my question, which is whether you've
purchased any display advertising -- meaning when
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I say you, the Navy, to your knowledge, have any
purchases been made directly, meaning between you
-- the Navy -- and Google, as the two parties to
the transaction, has Google -- has the Navy made
any purchases of display advertising directly
from Google?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
answered.
foundation.
Objection.
Asked and
Calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
Lack of
I'm -- I'm
not a lawyer, so I'm not certain of the legal
definition of "purchase directly."
tell you that, through our contract with VMLY&R,
we have asked them to purchase media on our
behalf from Google as well as other businesses.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
But I can
What do you mean -- what do you
understand the term "purchase" to mean just in
ordinary use?
A.
I would define "purchase" as an exchange
of resources for a good or service.
Q.
Okay.
What do you understand the term,
in ordinary use, "directly" to mean?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection.
Calls for a
legal conclusion in this context.
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BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
I'm asking for the plain language,
ordinary meaning, that you, Mr. Owens, understand
the term "directly" to mean?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Same objections, and
vague.
THE WITNESS:
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Can I answer the question?
You can answer if you
can, yeah.
THE WITNESS:
I would think -- I would
understand directly to mean either -- I mean,
between two parties.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Okay.
So with your under -- with the
definitions that you've provided, based on your
ordinary understanding of these words of the term
"purchase" and "directly," I'm going to ask you a
series of questions, and I would ask you to
please give me a yes or no answer.
Did the Navy purchase any display
advertising directly from Google?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
answered.
foundation.
Objection.
Asked and
Calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
Lack of
The Navy purchased
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advertising from Google via our contract with
VMLY&R.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
So, no, the Navy did not purchase
anything directly from Google, correct?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection.
Asked
and answered.
Mischaracterizes the witness's testimony.
Calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
That was not
my testimony.
purchased advertising from Google via our
contract with VMLY&R.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
My testimony is that the Navy
Using your term -- your understanding
of the term "directly"; that is, between two
parties, I'll ask you a series of questions.
Was there any transaction between the
Navy and Google for the purchase of display
advertising, --
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection.
Asked --
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
-- that you are aware of.
MR. MCBIRNEY:
answered.
conclusion.
Objection.
Lack of foundation.
Asked and
Calls for a legal
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THE WITNESS:
Our purchase was from
Google via our contract with VMLY&R.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
You have no other answer that you can
provide to my questions?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
THE WITNESS:
Objection; argumentative.
Well, without knowing what
your other questions are, I can't --
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
I'm asking whether you can answer my
question in a yes or no manner, and, if you
cannot, why you are unable to answer it in a yes
or no manner based on the definitions in your
understanding of the term "purchase" and of the
term "directly."
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Argumentative.
Objection.
Harassment.
THE WITNESS:
It's my understanding that
I should have the ability to provide complete
answers, --
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Mm-hmm.
A.
-- and I don't want my answer to be
mischaracterized, so that's why I'm -- I'm being
complete.
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In order for me to certify invoices
for payment, I have to see what went where, so
that includes what went to Google, what went to
Facebook, et cetera.
those entities, but it's via our contract with
VMLY&R.
Q.
So our purchases are from
And you don't send dollars directly to
Google, correct?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
legal conclusion.
foundation.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
Objection.
Calls for
Asked and answered.
Lack of
Do you ever write a check or issue a
payment via electronic bank transfer from a Navy
account to Google?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection; vague.
Foundation.
THE WITNESS:
We pay for our purchases
from various vendors through our contract with
the agency.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
And so when you need to pay Google, you
don't pay Google directly.
VMLY&R, correct?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Rather, you pay
Objection.
Asked and
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answered.
Calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
As I stated, when we are
paying for the services that we have purchased
from various vendors, we pay it through our
invoicing setup with VMLY&R.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
And, thus, there is a step in between
you -- meaning the Navy -- and Google in this
scenario, where the money goes, correct?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
legal conclusion.
foundation.
Objection.
Calls for
Asked and answered.
THE WITNESS:
Lack of
We pay for our goods
and our services procured from Google via the
contract with VMLY&R.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
Q.
All right.
Well, Mr. Owens, I can see
that you're unwilling to answer the questions as
posed, and I'll reserve my rights to bring you
back to answer these questions.
not providing an answer that is responsive to the
question, and that is your duty to do when you
are here testifying under oath.
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Because you are
And for the record,
the government strongly disagrees with that
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C E R T I F I C A T E
I do hereby certify that I am a Notary
Public in good standing, that the aforesaid
testimony was taken before me, pursuant to
notice, at the time and place indicated; that
said deponent was by me duly sworn to tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth; that the testimony of said deponent was
correctly recorded in machine shorthand by me and
thereafter transcribed under my supervision with
computer-aided transcription; that the deposition
is a true and correct record of the testimony
given by the witness; and that I am neither of
counsel nor kin to any party in said action, nor
interested in the outcome thereof.
WITNESS my hand and official seal this
17th day of August, 2023.
<%11516,Signature%>
Notary Public
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Page
Jimmy McBirney, Esq.
jimmy.mcbirney@usdoj.gov
August 17, RE:
United States, Et Al v. Google, LLC
8/15/2023, Allen Owens (#6037511)
The above-referenced transcript is available for
review.
Within the applicable timeframe, the witness should
read the testimony to verify its accuracy. If there are
any changes, the witness should note those with the
reason, on the attached Errata Sheet.
The witness should sign the Acknowledgment of
Deponent and Errata and return to the deposing attorney.
Copies should be sent to all counsel, and to Veritext at
erratas-cs@veritext.com
Return completed errata within 30 days from
receipt of testimony.
If the witness fails to do so within the time
allotted, the transcript may be used as if signed.
Yours,
Veritext Legal Solutions
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Page
United States, Et Al v. Google, LLC
Allen Owens
_______________
Date
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Page
United States, Et Al v. Google, LLC
Allen Owens (#6037511)
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF DEPONENT
I, Allen Owens, do hereby declare that I
have read the foregoing transcript, I have made any
corrections, additions, or changes I deemed necessary as
noted above to be appended hereto, and that the same is
a true, correct and complete transcript of the testimony
given by me.
______________________________
Allen Owens
*If notary is required
________________
Date
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME THIS
______ DAY OF ________________, 20___.
__________________________
NOTARY PUBLIC
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Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
Rule
(e) Review By the Witness; Changes.
(1) Review; Statement of Changes. On request by the
deponent or a party before the deposition is
completed, the deponent must be allowed 30 days
after being notified by the officer that the
transcript or recording is available in which:
(A) to review the transcript or recording; and
(B) if there are changes in form or substance, to
sign a statement listing the changes and the
reasons for making them.
(2) Changes Indicated in the Officer's Certificate.
The officer must note in the certificate prescribed
by Rule 30(f)(1) whether a review was requested
and, if so, must attach any changes the deponent
makes during the 30-day period.
DISCLAIMER:
THE FOREGOING FEDERAL PROCEDURE RULES
ARE PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.
THE ABOVE RULES ARE CURRENT AS OF APRIL 1,
2019.
PLEASE REFER TO THE APPLICABLE FEDERAL RULES
OF CIVIL PROCEDURE FOR UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION.
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VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS
COMPANY CERTIFICATE AND DISCLOSURE STATEMENT
Veritext Legal Solutions represents that the
foregoing transcript is a true, correct and complete
transcript of the colloquies, questions and answers
as submitted by the court reporter. Veritext Legal
Solutions further represents that the attached
exhibits, if any, are true, correct and complete
documents as submitted by the court reporter and/or
attorneys in relation to this deposition and that
the documents were processed in accordance with
our litigation support and production standards.
Veritext Legal Solutions is committed to maintaining
the confidentiality of client and witness information,
in accordance with the regulations promulgated under
the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability
Act (HIPAA), as amended with respect to protected
health information and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, as
amended, with respect to Personally Identifiable
Information (PII). Physical transcripts and exhibits
are managed under strict facility and personnel access
controls. Electronic files of documents are stored
in encrypted form and are transmitted in an encrypted
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Veritext Legal Solutions complies with all federal and
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Inquiries about Veritext Legal Solutions'
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
ALEXANDRIA DIVISION
2
3
__________________________
4
:
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, :
et al.,
:
:
Plaintiffs
:
:
v.
: No.
:
GOOGLE, LLC,
:
:
Defendants.
:
__________________________:
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
1:23-cv-00108
Tuesday, August 15, 2023
Video Deposition of ALLEN OWENS,
13
taken at the Law Offices of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind,
14
Wharton & Garrison LLP, 2001 K St NW, Washington,
15
DC, beginning at 9:37 a.m. Eastern Standard Time,
16
before Ryan K. Black, Registered Professional
17
Reporter, Certified Livenote Reporter and Notary
18
Public in and for the District of Columbia
19
20
21
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23
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Job No. CS6037511
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
ANTITRUST DIVISION
BY: JIMMY MCBIRNEY, ESQ.
CHASE PRITCHETT, ESQ.
ALVIN CHU, ESQ.
MARK SOSNOWSKY, ESQ. - Via Zoom
KATHERINE CLEMONS, ESQ - Via Zoom
JULIA TARVER-WOOD, ESQ. - Via Zoom
450 5th Street, N.W
Washington, DC 20530
202.514.2414
jimmy.mcbirney@usdoj.gov
chase.pritchett@usdoj.gov
alvin.chu@usdoj.gov
mark.sosnowsky@usdoj.gov
katherine.clemons@usdoj.gov
julia.tarver-wood@usdoj.gov
Representing - The United States of America
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
PAUL, WEISS, RIFKIND, WHARTON & GARRISON LLP,
BY: MARTHA L. GOODMAN, ESQ.
LEAH HIBBLER, ESQ.
2001 K St NW,
Washington, DC
202.223.7341
mgoodman@paulweiss.com
lhibbler@paulweiss.com
15
16
17
18
Representing - Google LLC
19
20
21
22
23
ALSO PRESENT:
24
Orson Braithwaite - Legal Videographer
Ann Bruck - Department of the Navy
25
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6
I N D E X
TESTIMONY OF: ALLEN OWENS
PAGE
By Ms. Goodman.................................6
E X H I B I T S
EXHIBIT
DESCRIPTION
PAGE
Exhibit 52
a document Bates Numbered
NAVY-ADS174029 through
NAVY-ADS174060..................62
Exhibit 53
a document Bates Numbered
NAVY-ADS256935 through
NAVY-ADS257031..................97
Exhibit 54
a document Bates Numbered
NAVY-ADS12756 through
NAYV-ADS12800..................102
Exhibit 55
a document Bates Numbered
NAVY-ADS241136 through
NAVY-ADS241143.................111
Exhibit 56
a document Bates Numbered
NAVY-ADS15543 through
NAVY-ADS15622..................130
Exhibit 57
a document Bates Numbered
NAVY-ADS19114 through
NAVY-ADS19182..................146
Exhibit 58
a document Bates Numbered
NAVY-ADS45197 through
NAVY-ADS45206..................172
Exhibit 59
a document Bates Numbered
NAVY-ADS103897 through
NAVY-ADS103900.................182
Exhibit 60
a document Bates Numbered
NAVY-ADS28530 through
NAVY-ADS28531..................187
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
Good morning.
We're
2
going on the record at 9:37 a.m. on August 15th,
3
2023.
4
sensitive and may pick up whispering and private
5
conversations.
6
time.
7
take place unless all parties agree to go
8
off the record.
Please note that the microphones are
Please mute your phones at this
Audio and video recording will continue to
9
This is Media Unit 1 of the
10
video-recorded deposition of Mr. Allen Owens
11
in the matter of United States, et al., versus
12
Google LLC, filed in the United States District
13
Court, Eastern District of Virginia, Alexandria
14
Division.
Case Number 1:23-cv-00108-LMB-JFA.
15
My name is Orson Braithwaite,
16
representing Veritext Legal Solutions, and I'm
17
the videographer.
18
Black from the firm Veritext Legal Solutions.
19
The court reporter is Ryan
Counsel will now state their appearances
20
and affiliations for the record.
21
MS. GOODMAN:
Martha Goodman of the law
22
firm Paul Weiss on behalf of Google LLC, and I'm
23
joined by my colleague Leah Hibbler.
24
MR. MCBIRNEY:
25
Jim McBirney on behalf of
the Department of Justice on behalf of the United
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States and the witness.
2
MR. PRITCHETT:
3
Chase Pritchett on
behalf of the United States.
4
MR. CHU:
5
Alvin Chu on behalf of the
United States.
6
MS. GOODMAN:
And then will any
7
attorneys appearing remotely please state your
8
presence.
9
MR. SOSNOWSKY:
10
Mark Sosnowsky, U.S.
Department of Justice.
11
MS. CLEMONS:
12
Katherine Clemons,
Department of Justice.
13
MS. GOODMAN:
14
MS. BRUCK:
15
Is there any -Ann Bruck, Department of
Navy.
16
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
17
MS. TARVER-WOOD:
18
Tarver-Wood from DOJ.
19
entering an appearance.
20
throughout the day.
21
Yes.
This is Julia
I'm not officially
I'll be in and out
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
22
We have a Ms. Wood.
Thank you.
Will the
court reporter please swear in the witness?
23
*
24
*
*
Whereupon --
25
ALLEN OWENS,
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called to testify, having been first duly sworn
2
or affirmed, was examined and testified as
3
follows:
4
*
5
*
*
EXAMINATION
6
BY MS. GOODMAN:
7
Q.
Good -- good morning, Mr. Owens.
8
A.
Good morning.
9
Q.
Have you been deposed before?
10
A.
No, I have not.
11
Q.
Okay.
I want to make sure -- go over
12
a few ground rules, the most important one of
13
which is because the court reporter is writing
14
everything down that we're saying, it's important
15
that you let me finish my question before you
16
answer so that we don't talk over one another.
17
Okay?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Okay.
And please make sure that your
20
answers are verbal, particularly if it's a yes or
21
no question.
22
translate well to the -- to the piece of paper.
23
So please provide a verbal answer.
The uh-huh or huh-uh doesn't really
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Okay.
Okay?
And I will assume that you
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an -- understand my question.
2
understand, please let me know.
3
A.
Yes.
4
Q.
Okay.
If you don't
Okay?
Is there any reason that you
5
cannot provide your full -- fully truthful and
6
accurate testimony here today?
7
A.
No, there's no reason.
8
Q.
Okay.
9
What, if anything, did you do to
prepare for today's deposition?
10
A.
Met with counsel.
11
Q.
When did you meet with counsel?
12
A.
Various times.
13
Q.
What various times that -- can you
14
recall meeting with counsel?
15
A.
Yesterday, the day prior.
And I don't
16
recall exact dates before that, but various
17
times.
18
Q.
19
So yesterday meaning Monday and the day
prior meaning the Sunday before today?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Okay.
And -- and then you said "various
22
times prior to last Sunday you met with counsel";
23
is that correct?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Okay.
And were all of those meetings in
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may be an occasion where I might have, but not to
2
my recollection.
3
BY MS. GOODMAN:
4
Q.
5
So it is possible that you've deleted
documents in 2023 related to work, correct?
6
MR. MCBIRNEY:
7
Object to the form of the
question.
8
THE WITNESS:
9
There's a possibility.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
10
Q.
11
Okay.
Under Navy's -- are you aware of
any document retention policies at the Navy?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
And what do those policies provide?
14
A.
Sitting here today, I don't recall the
15
exact stipulations in those policies.
16
Q.
How about generally?
What do you recall
17
as to what those document retention policies
18
state?
19
A.
Sitting here today, I -- I don't recall.
20
Q.
Okay.
To your knowledge, do the
21
document retention policies permit you to delete
22
files?
23
MR. MCBIRNEY:
24
THE WITNESS:
25
Objection; vague.
Yeah.
Sitting here today,
I don't recall the stipulations of that policy.
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BY MS. GOODMAN:
2
Q.
3
And thus you don't recall whether they
permit you to delete files, correct?
4
MR. MCBIRNEY:
5
Objection.
Asked and
answered.
6
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
My testimony is,
7
sitting here today, I do not recall the exact
8
stipulations of that policy.
9
BY MS. GOODMAN:
10
Q.
And, therefore, correct, you don't
11
recall whether those policies permit you to
12
delete files?
13
MR. MCBIRNEY:
14
Objection.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
15
Q.
16
Is that accurate?
MR. MCBIRNEY:
17
Objection.
Asked and
answered.
18
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
So my testimony is,
19
sitting here today, I do not recall the exact
20
stipulations of that policy.
21
BY MS. GOODMAN:
22
Q.
Okay.
And so you can't answer whether,
23
as a result of your inability to recall the exact
24
stipulations of this -- of the policy, you cannot
25
an -- you don't recall whether or not that policy
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permits you to delete files.
2
MR. MCBIRNEY:
3
Is that accurate?
Objection.
Asked and
answered.
4
THE WITNESS:
So it's my testimony that,
5
sitting here today, I don't recall the specific
6
stipulations of that policy.
7
BY MS. GOODMAN:
8
Q.
9
Okay.
And, therefore, you can't testify
one way or another to what that policy says with
10
respect to the deletion of files, correct?
11
MR. MCBIRNEY:
12
Objection.
Asked and
answered.
13
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
Those were not my
14
words.
15
remember the exact stipulations of the policy.
16
BY MS. GOODMAN:
17
Q.
I said, sitting here today, I don't
Other than a lawyer, has anybody told
18
you anything about preserving documents with
19
respect to this litigation?
20
THE WITNESS:
I'm not sure of the
21
communications I received, whether those would be
22
privileged or not.
23
MR. MCBIRNEY:
If you received
24
communications regarding preserving documents
25
that were either from a lawyer or at the
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direction of a lawyer, that's privileged and I'd
2
instruct you not to answer.
3
communications about preserving documents that do
4
not fall into those categories and you are
5
confident that they do not come from counsel, you
6
can answer.
7
THE WITNESS:
If you received
Yeah.
Then I cannot
8
answer the question without revealing privileged
9
conversations.
10
BY MS. GOODMAN:
11
Q.
And for the record -- and this is a yes
12
or no question -- have you received any direction
13
from anybody with respect to preserving documents
14
related to this litigation?
15
MR. MCBIRNEY:
16
You can answer that yes
or no.
17
THE WITNESS:
18
Yes.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
19
Q.
When did you receive such direction?
20
A.
I don't recall the exact time frame.
21
Earlier this year in 2023.
22
Q.
23
Was it before or after you learned about
this lawsuit?
24
A.
I don't recall.
25
Q.
Prior to this lawsuit, have you ever
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requested legal advice from the Department of
2
Justice Antitrust Division?
3
A.
No.
4
Q.
Prior to learning about this lawsuit,
5
have you ever requested legal advice from the
6
Department of Justice Antitrust Division?
7
A.
No.
8
Q.
Since receiving instructions with
9
respect to preserving documents related to this
10
litigation, have you deleted any documents on any
11
of your devices?
12
A.
Not to my knowledge.
13
Q.
So you've testified that VMLY&R is the
14
ad agency for the Navy; is that correct?
15
A.
That is correct.
16
Q.
And they have been the ad agency for the
17
Navy since, approximately, 2016.
18
accurate?
19
A.
20
Is that
They have been the ad agency since
approximately 2016, yes.
21
Q.
Okay.
And their contract with the Navy
22
was renewed or reentered into in 2021.
23
accurate?
24
A.
Yes, it was renewed in 2021.
25
Q.
Okay.
Is that
Other than the VMLY&R, is there
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any other agency -- ad agency engaged by the
2
Naval -- Navy Recruiting Command related to
3
advertising?
4
MR. MCBIRNEY:
5
THE WITNESS:
Objection; foundation.
Our contract is with
6
VMLY&R.
7
businesses and agencies that work with them.
8
our contract is with VMLY&R.
9
BY MS. GOODMAN:
10
Q.
It's my understanding they have other
But
And are you aware of any contract
11
between the Navy and any other ad agency related
12
to advertising?
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
Were you involved in the selection of
15
VMLY&R when their contract was renewed in 2021?
16
THE WITNESS:
17
Am I allowed to discuss
contractual selection items?
18
MR. MCBIRNEY:
19
You can answer that
question yes or no and we'll go from there.
20
THE WITNESS:
21
question again?
22
BY MS. GOODMAN:
23
Q.
24
Okay.
Can you ask that
Were you involved in the selection of
VMLY&R when their contract was renewed in 2021?
25
A.
Yes.
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1
of the term Open Web Display Advertising?
2
MR. MCBIRNEY:
3
Objection; foundation.
Asked and answered.
4
THE WITNESS:
As I testified, I'm
5
familiar with the term; however, I don't know the
6
definition of Open Web Display Advertising.
7
BY MS. GOODMAN:
8
Q.
9
How are you familiar with the term Open
Web Display Advertising?
10
A.
I've -- I've seen the term.
But,
11
again, I -- I can't describe to you exactly the
12
definition of that.
13
understand it to be, as stated earlier, Display
14
Advertising.
15
BY MS. GOODMAN:
16
Q.
17
Okay.
But, in general terms, I
Where have you seen the term Open
Web Display Advertising?
18
19
A.
I can't recollect exactly where I saw
Q.
Generally speaking, can you describe
it.
20
21
anywhere you've seen the term Open Web Display
22
Advertising, such as in emails or documents
23
with your ad agency, on -- on other websites
24
discussing the advertising industry, any place
25
that you recall seeing that term?
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MR. MCBIRNEY:
2
THE WITNESS:
Object to form.
Sitting here today, I -- I
3
cannot remember where I've seen that term.
4
BY MS. GOODMAN:
5
Q.
6
Do you recall ever seeing it in any
documents provided to you by VMLY&R?
7
A.
8
As mentioned a moment ago, I cannot
recall where I've seen the term.
9
Q.
And, thus, you don't know whether you've
10
seen it in any documents provided by VMLY&R,
11
correct?
12
MR. MCBIRNEY:
13
answered.
14
Objection.
Asked and
Mischaracterizes the testimony.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
As I -- as I
15
testified, I don't recollect where I've seen the
16
term.
17
BY MS. GOODMAN:
18
Q.
Okay.
Have you had any discussions
19
with anybody about the term Open Web Display
20
Advertising and what it means?
21
A.
Not to my knowledge.
22
Q.
Prior to the filing of this lawsuit
23
in January of 2023, were you aware of any
24
anticompetitive conduct on the part of Google
25
affecting Navy's advertising?
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MR. MCBIRNEY:
You can answer that
2
question to the extent it does not disclose
3
communications with counsel.
4
THE WITNESS:
5
To my knowledge, no.
BY MS. GOODMAN:
6
Q.
And how about prior to this lawsuit,
7
did you ever have any concerns in your capacity
8
as the director of marketing for the Navy
9
Recruiting Command that Google was engaging in
10
anticompetitive conduct related to digital
11
advertising?
12
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Object to foundation.
13
THE WITNESS:
Prior to this, I had no
14
knowledge of nor reason to suspect that of
15
Google.
16
BY MS. GOODMAN:
17
Q.
Prior to this lawsuit, did you have
18
ever -- did you ever have any concerns that
19
Google was engaging in any conduct that was
20
causing the Navy harm with respect to its digital
21
advertising?
22
A.
23
Sitting here today, I can -- I can think
of no reason to believe that.
24
Q.
25
You described Google, in fact, as a
partner of the Navy, right?
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MR. MCBIRNEY:
2
Objection.
Assumes
facts.
3
THE WITNESS:
Oftentimes, a lot of the
4
businesses that we use will be referred to as a
5
partner if we're doing business with them, so
6
I -- I may have referred to Google as a partner.
7
BY MS. GOODMAN:
8
Q.
9
Has Google helped the Navy with respect
to recruiting more sailors to join?
10
MR. MCBIRNEY:
11
THE WITNESS:
Objection; foundation.
We have found lots of
12
value in many of the Google buys that we've done.
13
BY MS. GOODMAN:
14
Q.
And the Google buys that you've done
15
that you've found value in, does that relate to
16
YouTube buys?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
And how about with respect to
search?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Okay.
Can you describe in any more
22
detail the value that you have found in many of
23
the Google buys that the Navy has done?
24
A.
25
In particular, some of the YouTube
activations we've had have had extremely high
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video completion rates.
2
Q.
3
Any other -THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
4
Counsel, the Zoom's
offline.
5
MS. GOODMAN:
6
MR. MCBIRNEY:
7
Let's take a break.
We're going to be here a
while.
8
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
9
The time is 5:07 p.m.
We're going off the record.
10
(Recess taken.)
11
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
12
We're on the record.
13
BY MS. GOODMAN:
14
Q.
Time is 5:14 p.m.
Mr. Owens, can you describe any other
15
instances that the Navy has found value in any of
16
the Google buys that it has done?
17
A.
18
there.
Paid search, as well.
We've found value
19
I don't have a list at the ready, but
20
-- but there's -- it's been on many occasions.
21
Q.
Can you approximate the number of
22
occasions that you've found value in Google buys
23
for the Navy?
24
MR. MCBIRNEY:
25
THE WITNESS:
Objection; foundation.
Yeah.
I -- I can't
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provide an exact number or even a general number.
2
BY MS. GOODMAN:
3
Q.
Just many?
4
A.
Yes.
5
Q.
Has anybody at VMLY&R ever told you that
6
Google was engaging in anticompetitive conduct
7
with respect to digital advertising?
8
A.
No.
9
Q.
Did anybody at Wavemaker ever tell you
10
that Google was engaging in anticompetitive
11
conduct with respect to digital advertising?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
Has anyone ever told you that Google is
14
engaging in anticompetitive conduct with respect
15
to digital advertising.
16
MR. MCBIRNEY:
17
anyone other than the attorneys.
18
to the extent --
19
MS. GOODMAN:
20
I interpret that to mean
You can answer
The question is the
question.
21
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Okay.
Well, then I would
22
instruct the witness not to answer to the extent
23
it requires divulging privileged communication.
24
THE WITNESS:
25
I'm going to listen to my
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MR. MCBIRNEY:
And lack of foundation.
2
THE WITNESS:
So the Navy has purchased
3
display advertising via our contract with VMLY&R,
4
and we've asked them to purchase that on our
5
behalf.
6
BY MS. GOODMAN:
7
Q.
Okay.
But my question is did the
8
Navy -- to your knowledge, as director of
9
marketing for the Navy Recruiting Command and as
10
the Contracting Officer Representative, did the
11
Navy purchase any display advertising directly
12
-- not through VMYL&R or any other intermediary
13
-- did the Navy purchase any display advertising
14
directly from Google?
15
MR. MCBIRNEY:
16
answered.
17
of foundation.
Objection.
Asked and
18
Calls for a legal conclusion, and lack
THE WITNESS:
We have purchased our
19
marketing and advertising and media from Google,
20
as well as other companies, through our ad agency
21
contract.
22
BY MS. GOODMAN:
23
Q.
Okay.
You're -- sir, you're not
24
answering my question, which is whether you've
25
purchased any display advertising -- meaning when
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I say you, the Navy, to your knowledge, have any
2
purchases been made directly, meaning between you
3
-- the Navy -- and Google, as the two parties to
4
the transaction, has Google -- has the Navy made
5
any purchases of display advertising directly
6
from Google?
7
MR. MCBIRNEY:
8
answered.
9
foundation.
10
Objection.
Asked and
Calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
Lack of
I'm -- I'm
11
not a lawyer, so I'm not certain of the legal
12
definition of "purchase directly."
13
tell you that, through our contract with VMLY&R,
14
we have asked them to purchase media on our
15
behalf from Google as well as other businesses.
16
BY MS. GOODMAN:
17
Q.
Okay.
But I can
What do you mean -- what do you
18
understand the term "purchase" to mean just in
19
ordinary use?
20
A.
21
I would define "purchase" as an exchange
of resources for a good or service.
22
Q.
23
Okay.
What do you understand the term,
in ordinary use, "directly" to mean?
24
MR. MCBIRNEY:
25
Objection.
Calls for a
legal conclusion in this context.
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1
BY MS. GOODMAN:
2
Q.
I'm asking for the plain language,
3
ordinary meaning, that you, Mr. Owens, understand
4
the term "directly" to mean?
5
MR. MCBIRNEY:
6
Same objections, and
vague.
7
THE WITNESS:
8
MR. MCBIRNEY:
9
Can I answer the question?
You can answer if you
can, yeah.
10
THE WITNESS:
I would think -- I would
11
understand directly to mean either -- I mean,
12
between two parties.
13
BY MS. GOODMAN:
14
Q.
Okay.
So with your under -- with the
15
definitions that you've provided, based on your
16
ordinary understanding of these words of the term
17
"purchase" and "directly," I'm going to ask you a
18
series of questions, and I would ask you to
19
please give me a yes or no answer.
20
Did the Navy purchase any display
21
advertising directly from Google?
22
MR. MCBIRNEY:
23
answered.
24
foundation.
25
Objection.
Asked and
Calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
Lack of
The Navy purchased
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advertising from Google via our contract with
2
VMLY&R.
3
BY MS. GOODMAN:
4
Q.
5
So, no, the Navy did not purchase
anything directly from Google, correct?
6
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Objection.
Asked
7
and answered.
8
Mischaracterizes the witness's testimony.
9
Calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
That was not
10
my testimony.
11
purchased advertising from Google via our
12
contract with VMLY&R.
13
BY MS. GOODMAN:
14
Q.
My testimony is that the Navy
Using your term -- your understanding
15
of the term "directly"; that is, between two
16
parties, I'll ask you a series of questions.
17
Was there any transaction between the
18
Navy and Google for the purchase of display
19
advertising, --
20
MR. MCBIRNEY:
21
Objection.
Asked --
BY MS. GOODMAN:
22
Q.
23
-- that you are aware of.
MR. MCBIRNEY:
24
answered.
25
conclusion.
Objection.
Lack of foundation.
Asked and
Calls for a legal
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THE WITNESS:
Our purchase was from
2
Google via our contract with VMLY&R.
3
BY MS. GOODMAN:
4
Q.
5
You have no other answer that you can
provide to my questions?
6
MR. MCBIRNEY:
7
THE WITNESS:
Objection; argumentative.
Well, without knowing what
8
your other questions are, I can't --
9
BY MS. GOODMAN:
10
Q.
I'm asking whether you can answer my
11
question in a yes or no manner, and, if you
12
cannot, why you are unable to answer it in a yes
13
or no manner based on the definitions in your
14
understanding of the term "purchase" and of the
15
term "directly."
16
MR. MCBIRNEY:
17
Argumentative.
18
Objection.
Harassment.
THE WITNESS:
It's my understanding that
19
I should have the ability to provide complete
20
answers, --
21
BY MS. GOODMAN:
22
Q.
Mm-hmm.
23
A.
-- and I don't want my answer to be
24
mischaracterized, so that's why I'm -- I'm being
25
complete.
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In order for me to certify invoices
2
for payment, I have to see what went where, so
3
that includes what went to Google, what went to
4
Facebook, et cetera.
5
those entities, but it's via our contract with
6
VMLY&R.
7
Q.
8
So our purchases are from
And you don't send dollars directly to
Google, correct?
9
MR. MCBIRNEY:
10
legal conclusion.
11
foundation.
12
BY MS. GOODMAN:
13
Q.
Objection.
Calls for
Asked and answered.
Lack of
Do you ever write a check or issue a
14
payment via electronic bank transfer from a Navy
15
account to Google?
16
MR. MCBIRNEY:
17
Objection; vague.
Foundation.
18
THE WITNESS:
We pay for our purchases
19
from various vendors through our contract with
20
the agency.
21
BY MS. GOODMAN:
22
Q.
And so when you need to pay Google, you
23
don't pay Google directly.
24
VMLY&R, correct?
25
MR. MCBIRNEY:
Rather, you pay
Objection.
Asked and
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1
answered.
2
Calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
As I stated, when we are
3
paying for the services that we have purchased
4
from various vendors, we pay it through our
5
invoicing setup with VMLY&R.
6
BY MS. GOODMAN:
7
Q.
And, thus, there is a step in between
8
you -- meaning the Navy -- and Google in this
9
scenario, where the money goes, correct?
10
MR. MCBIRNEY:
11
legal conclusion.
12
foundation.
13
Objection.
Calls for
Asked and answered.
THE WITNESS:
Lack of
We pay for our goods
14
and our services procured from Google via the
15
contract with VMLY&R.
16
BY MS. GOODMAN:
17
Q.
All right.
Well, Mr. Owens, I can see
18
that you're unwilling to answer the questions as
19
posed, and I'll reserve my rights to bring you
20
back to answer these questions.
21
not providing an answer that is responsive to the
22
question, and that is your duty to do when you
23
are here testifying under oath.
24
MR. MCBIRNEY:
25
Because you are
And for the record,
the government strongly disagrees with that
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C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3
I do hereby certify that I am a Notary
4
Public in good standing, that the aforesaid
5
testimony was taken before me, pursuant to
6
notice, at the time and place indicated; that
7
said deponent was by me duly sworn to tell the
8
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
9
truth; that the testimony of said deponent was
10
correctly recorded in machine shorthand by me and
11
thereafter transcribed under my supervision with
12
computer-aided transcription; that the deposition
13
is a true and correct record of the testimony
14
given by the witness; and that I am neither of
15
counsel nor kin to any party in said action, nor
16
interested in the outcome thereof.
17
18
WITNESS my hand and official seal this
19
17th day of August, 2023.
20
21
<%11516,Signature%>
22
Notary Public
23
24
25
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Page 281
1
Jimmy McBirney, Esq.
2
jimmy.mcbirney@usdoj.gov
3
4
August 17, 2023
RE:
United States, Et Al v. Google, LLC
5
8/15/2023, Allen Owens (#6037511)
6
The above-referenced transcript is available for
7
review.
8
Within the applicable timeframe, the witness should
9
read the testimony to verify its accuracy. If there are
10
any changes, the witness should note those with the
11
reason, on the attached Errata Sheet.
12
The witness should sign the Acknowledgment of
13
Deponent and Errata and return to the deposing attorney.
14
Copies should be sent to all counsel, and to Veritext at
15
erratas-cs@veritext.com
16
17
18
19
20
Return completed errata within 30 days from
receipt of testimony.
If the witness fails to do so within the time
allotted, the transcript may be used as if signed.
21
22
Yours,
23
Veritext Legal Solutions
24
25
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Page 282
1
United States, Et Al v. Google, LLC
2
Allen Owens (#6037511)
3
E R R A T A
S H E E T
4
PAGE_____ LINE_____ CHANGE________________________
5
__________________________________________________
6
REASON____________________________________________
7
PAGE_____ LINE_____ CHANGE________________________
8
__________________________________________________
9
REASON____________________________________________
10
PAGE_____ LINE_____ CHANGE________________________
11
__________________________________________________
12
REASON____________________________________________
13
PAGE_____ LINE_____ CHANGE________________________
14
__________________________________________________
15
REASON____________________________________________
16
PAGE_____ LINE_____ CHANGE________________________
17
__________________________________________________
18
REASON____________________________________________
19
PAGE_____ LINE_____ CHANGE________________________
20
__________________________________________________
21
REASON____________________________________________
22
23
________________________________
24
Allen Owens
_______________
Date
25
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Page 283
1
United States, Et Al v. Google, LLC
2
Allen Owens (#6037511)
3
4
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF DEPONENT
I, Allen Owens, do hereby declare that I
5
have read the foregoing transcript, I have made any
6
corrections, additions, or changes I deemed necessary as
7
noted above to be appended hereto, and that the same is
8
a true, correct and complete transcript of the testimony
9
given by me.
10
11
______________________________
12
Allen Owens
13
*If notary is required
________________
Date
14
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME THIS
15
______ DAY OF ________________, 20___.
16
17
18
__________________________
19
NOTARY PUBLIC
20
21
22
23
24
25
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Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
Rule 30
(e) Review By the Witness; Changes.
(1) Review; Statement of Changes. On request by the
deponent or a party before the deposition is
completed, the deponent must be allowed 30 days
after being notified by the officer that the
transcript or recording is available in which:
(A) to review the transcript or recording; and
(B) if there are changes in form or substance, to
sign a statement listing the changes and the
reasons for making them.
(2) Changes Indicated in the Officer's Certificate.
The officer must note in the certificate prescribed
by Rule 30(f)(1) whether a review was requested
and, if so, must attach any changes the deponent
makes during the 30-day period.
DISCLAIMER:
THE FOREGOING FEDERAL PROCEDURE RULES
ARE PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.
THE ABOVE RULES ARE CURRENT AS OF APRIL 1,
2019.
PLEASE REFER TO THE APPLICABLE FEDERAL RULES
OF CIVIL PROCEDURE FOR UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION.
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COMPANY CERTIFICATE AND DISCLOSURE STATEMENT
Veritext Legal Solutions represents that the
foregoing transcript is a true, correct and complete
transcript of the colloquies, questions and answers
as submitted by the court reporter. Veritext Legal
Solutions further represents that the attached
exhibits, if any, are true, correct and complete
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